needing cars poll result

[mindstalk]

I did a survey on RPG.net (It's on a members-only forum so non-signed up people won't be able to see it) on having and needing cars, in the US or elsewhere. Final results:

I have a car, need it, and live in the USA Votes: 155 42.0%
I have a car, don't need it, and live in the USA Votes: 8 2.2%
I don't have a car, need one, and live in the USA Votes: 11 3.0%
I don't have a car, don't need one, and live in the USA Votes: 25 6.8%

I have a car, need it, and live outside the USA Votes: 59 16.0%
I have a car, don't need it, and live outside the USA Votes: 18 4.9%
I don't have a car, need one, and live outside the USA Votes: 5 1.4%
I don't have a car, don't need one, and live outside the USA Votes: 88 23.8%

Total voters
369

The poll was inspired by memories of a German poster saying that while Germany has a lot of cars they were more of a luxury item, possessed because you want one (country drives, easier grocery shopping) rather than because you need it. This was kind of a test of that, and as you can see the claim is somewhat falsified: the majority of non-US car owners still say they need it. Most respondents everywhere either have a car and say they need it, or don't have one and say they don't need one.

OTOH there are differences. 1/4 of non-US owners do in fact say they don't need it, vs like 5% of American owners. More strikingly, 62% of non-US respondents say they don't need a car, vs. 17% of US respondents; 52% of non-US respondents don't have a car and don't need it, vs. 78% of US respondents having a car and needing it. The difference in societies is quite stark.

The poll technology was primitive, thus clumping all non-US countries together, but based on comments and past polls, the main countries are Canada, UK, Ireland, Germany, and Sweden. The site has a liberal tilt; if you're vocally not okay with feminism or queer rights, you get banned, and 10 years ago even the otherwise conservative US posters generally seemed fine with universal health care. OTOH I don't know if it has any particular urban bias, nor the age distribution -- though I've been around long enough that I can say many of the posters can't be that young any more.

Many of the US comments were along the lines of "transit sucks" and "but how can you even go shopping without a car???", what I'm starting to call "virgins talking about sex" discussions.

Comments

[mtbc]

Zipcar was most helpful to us in Boston, public transit nearly always sufficed, just not always. Without having Zipcar available we would have been more likely to own a car and, owning it, use it more.

[conuly]

Transit only sucks when communities refuse to invest in it properly.

[mindstalk]

Indeed!

Though communities can also make it harder to be economical, via zoning for low density anti-grid layouts, and subsidizing driving via cheap parking and letting cars tangle up buses.

[prixmium]

I have been told by people more well-informed than I am about it that thing is that the burgeoning automotive industry in the US during the early 20th century had lobbying power over the direction that industrialization and urbanization took in the US in particular. This led to the promotion of cars as the use of primary transit and the underfunding and creation of public transit systems. It is simply true that unless you are willing to walk multiple miles every day or two in order to obtain groceries and are lucky enough to live within a sane-for-a-healthy-person walking distance of your workplace that you probably cannot have a very good quality of life without a car in many suburban areas. That doesn't mean that it is impossible, but I think that any argument that suggests that people not getting by without a car in the suburban United States are just being whiny babies is kind of ableist and classist at the very least.

I loved public transit in Japan. I miss it. But here in order to work or shop, yes, I must have a car, even if I frequently lament the loss of access to a train.

[mindstalk]

"any argument that suggests that people not getting by without a car in the suburban United States are just being whiny babies"

And I never said so. I generally don't disagree with Americans who say they need a car; I bemoan the policies that create such a situation, and argue with them when they support those policies.

The thing I referred to about groceries is people being incredulous that anyone can live a fulfilling a life, in particular shopping for a family or having children, without a car. Not just "I live three miles from a grocery store" but "how can you get food, how do you get the kids to soccer". They can't even imagine an alternative lifestyle, anywhere. Thus my "virgins talking about sex" line.

[mtbc]

It did take me a bit of adaptation at times that should have been more obvious in advance. Like, I bought a decent large backpack in the end. At first I did naive things like buying stuff from Trader Joe's and discovering double-bagging with the paper bags they insisted on supplying didn't even let me get as far as the nearest bus stop in light rain before they wholly lost structural integrity and dumped my groceries all over the sidewalk.

[mindstalk]

Yeah, plastic bag bans are more annoying for non drivers.

[pie]

"virgins talking about sex" discussions

Ahahahaha this is perfect.

[elusiveat]

Agreed!

It's amazing what kinds of things you can discover that you don't, in fact, need when you suddenly find yourself without them.